Erotica for men
[message_box title=”UPDATE (3.30.2012)” color=”black”]Interest in what “erotica for men” has continued to grow since the day I posted the thoughts below. Clearly there’s a market for it, but I’m no longer convinced this market is all that different than what “erotica for women” is. In either case, the name has taken root, so I won’t fight the trend. Follow my thoughts in my new section: Erotica for Men.[/message_box]
Yes, men read erotic fiction, too. We’re the untapped market, so to speak. To the point, Ellora’s Cave is testing the waters with a line of “erotica for men” and have put a call out to the erotica-reading men of the world: what are our fantasies? It’s a step in the right direction, for sure, but it begs the question, “What is erotica for men?” The following are my thoughts (and some of Jake Marlow’s — a fellow male writer); there are very few stats to back any of this up, so keep that in mind.
What it isn’t
Let’s start here, because it’s easier that way. I’m a little tired of this notion that men don’t care about characters, or their histories and motivations. Or realistic plot. We don’t want to read about sex out of context — or rather, we wouldn’t buy a book that was just sex scenes out of context.
We want story, just like women. These are erotic stories. “Erotica for men” isn’t thinly veiled excuses for sex — not the most compelling of them. It’s not pornography in written form; not Busty Coeds Blow Your Mind With Words, Vol. 7.
It’s also not quite “romance with a higher heat level.” I wouldn’t necessarily apply many of the rules that govern romance — happily ever after endings, total fidelity amongst the protagonists, heroic tropes of the main characters — to male erotica. This isn’t to say they aren’t welcome things; I’m just saying they aren’t in the manual of men’s erotic requirements.
So what is in that manual?
Now we get into a bit of subjectivity, but if I had to venture to guess two things that most guy are looking for in erotica (and let me insert here that we’re talking about the special kind of guy who buys it, not reads it for free), I’d say visualization and more frequent sex.
Guys are visual creatures. Yes, erotica is written fiction. No, we’re not looking for graphic novels or picture books (well, I’m not; they’re out there, I’m sure). But good writing should be doing more than chronicle the actions of the main characters. It needs to paint a picture (show versus tell and all that). Give us the relevant details so we can live and breath the fictional world: what do the characters look like, show us their body language, show us enough about the scene that we can immerse ourselves. We want that a visceral experience.
This is even more critical when it comes to those sex scenes. We’re not looking for porn in written form — OK, scratch that because it’s not true. We’re not looking to buy porn in written form (that’s what free sites are for). Plot and characterization are important; tension build-up, development of relationships — they’re all elements that make good erotica. But for men, when we get to the pay-off, we want a pay-off. Not some poetry. Not a scene-cut like the R-rated version of an NR softcore film. It needs to be there, and we need to live it.
Furthermore, sex scenes should not be shied away from. It’s what many guys are looking for in their stories. This isn’t to say that they’re “fast forwarding to the good stuff,” but they do expect the good stuff to be in there, and be there often (definition of “often” may vary). I usually feel bad when it takes me too long to get to something spicy in my own work, although it does happen (I’m 10k into a summer-themed story that’s just now getting to its first real sex scene). And if not a full-on scene, something to tease the reader with.
What I’m not saying is sex that doesn’t make sense. See the first point above (Busty Coeds, Words, Vol. 7, remember?).
Batman and Spider-man
Here’s my analogy for the two types of male leads we like.
Peter Parker (Spider-man) is the guy that I relate to (and I don’t think I’m alone). He’s not really an alpha. He isn’t a star athlete or a war hero. He’s kind of a nerd, a do-gooder. Doesn’t want to disappoint his sweet aunt. Doesn’t get all the girls. Is even a little awkward (just a little). And doesn’t live and breath confidence. He has a “regular” job (although photojournalism is pretty sweet). In short, we can see ourselves in this guy. Even the origin of powers is something we can relate to, a product of circumstance, something completely external (spider bite); he happened into his great story, but when he does, he seizes the opportunity, as any good hero should. He’s one of the guys we look for in erotica. A lot of what I’ve read is completely devoid of this protagonist. We get alphas that we can’t fathom existing in reality, let alone maybe being us. We want more Peters.
But that’s not to say we don’t sometimes look for the alpha, either. Bruce Wayne (Batman) is a guy I can admire in fiction. Sure, he exhibits a lot of alpha traits. He’s rich. Good looking. Fit. Has his own empire. The super powers are an outward extension of his own hard work and innovation. And most importantly, he kicks a lot of ass. Guys like this sort of guy — Don Draper, James Bond — and while they don’t satisfy the relatable thing in our hearts, they certainly occupy the desire to escape. And when you’re reading erotic fiction, there is some part of us wanting to escape. What sets Batman apart from most male erotic romance protagonists is how he’s written. We’re not looking for a guy who makes women turn into mush by his very gaze — Batman isn’t written from the female protagonist’s perspective as her ideal. He’s written for us, first. The swooning stuff is just a welcome side effect.
The fantasies
With a few exceptions, I think that women and men share more fantasies than most realize. If you get nothing out of this post, it should be this nugget: it’s not the story that’s different, it’s the way the story is told.
There are some specific themes that may fall more into the XY column. Wife watching (and more extreme, cheating wife/cuckold stories). Madonna/whore dichotomies. Older woman/younger man. Threesomes and girl-girl (OK, this is for all, but seems “guyish” enough to mention it).
Point is, while there are a few specific fantasies between the two genders, the fine line is drawn with a loosely held pencil rather than anything bold and differentiating. It’s the way those fantasies are written that set us apart.
Conclusion
I’m pretty interested in what Ellora’s Cave will come up with. I think the “male niche” is one of the fastest growing ones out there. Guys are looking for things to read and it appears that the market is reacting to it. I just hope that something in all the words above can help guide those looking to fill it. Just remember, this is me speaking for me, not males in general.
Agree, disagree? Leave a comment or e-mail me. I’ll be happy to discuss. Now’s your chance to speak!
Edit: I have no idea why the comments are closed. I’m looking into this. For now, though, I’ve created a Goodreads group on this topic. Head over there if you’re interested in “erotica for men.”
DH Maven
Good thoughts. Great analysis on the “Peter Parker/Spiderman” “Bruce Wayne/Batman” imagery. And I found your comments of men not expecting happily ever and that it’s not the story lines that are really different for men, but how the story is written very interesting. I’m looking forward to what Ellora’s Cave comes up with. DHM
J C Miller
You have good analysis and thought in this essay.
I can wait for the sex if there’s a credible story going on. Wes Boyd writes such stories. I want to know why the guy wants this particular woman or women, not just that they have a wet pussy. The characters should be unique.
I find that detailed descriptions of sex with the same woman are tiring, unless there’s a good lead-in each time. Often, on SOL, the sex is the same chapter after chapter, with virtually no story. Most of these stories are simply linear.
Unless it is Sci-Fi or fantasy, the story should be credible. Big dick stories are particularly dull.
Lucy
I also love the batman analogy, and I think it’s spot on.
The language is different for male readers, I think. It’s not all “her nub, her sex, sweet torment” type stuff, but it’s not cock/pussy either. It’s about attention to small details on the body, to the point that they sometimes become fetishised. That is how you create a “visual.”
Matt Nicholson
I wanted to drop a note thanking you for this piece. My company has recently started marketing our short stories through Smashwords and, even as a man, I’ve been trying to get my head around which of the stories should be marketed at “Men’s Erotica.” I’m still not quite certain, but your article has me a little closer to the mark.
kenny
It’s kind of a difficult thing to define. I think that you just go with your gut when classifying things, and know that most of your audience is going to be female, anyway. You don’t want to alienate that audience when listing something as “Male Erotica,” you know? But in general, I think guys go for the more visual, and we’re attracted to certain themes that aren’t always “romance.”
Good luck! I’ll check out your company’s site.
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Romantic erotica, not erotic romance
[…] of erotica has a larger male audience than traditional erotic romance. Like the ever popular “Erotica for men” post I did last year, we’re the untapped market, and this is the stuff that I, at least, […]
Naoko Smith
I just wrote a blog post saying, We don’t ask what men want! but apparently we do now. That’s so postmodern!
I really enjoyed this and other posts on your blog, I’ll keep popping in.
bellar1
I want to toss this out and see what response I get. I spent quite a few years in the “adult fiction” business back when printed erotic paperbacks were really big. I was a writer and then an editor. I realize the world has changed, but I can tell you definitely that we carefully monitored what sold and what did not. Our successes were NOT written from a man’s point of view. We found that our readers apparently did not want to “be inside” another man’s head. Our readers wanted to know what the females were all about, at least as we portrayed them. The male POV never worked. I am wondering if it will really be successful today. Have men changed that much? Our books were wildly successful and sold hundreds of thousands of copies so we must have been doing something right. Other feelings?
kennywriter
Thanks for your comment, Bellar. It’s always nice to receive them–especially from someone of your background.
Has the world changed in the past 5-10 years? Certainly. Have men? I can’t speak to that, but probably not that much. But that’s beside the point. I would venture to guess that most of your readers were women. That’s the traditional audience of erotica and erotic romance. It’s what the most successful imprints cater to even now (EC, Samhain, Loose id, Harlequin). It’s also still the largest demographic reading erotica and erotic romance by far. I haven’t seen figures, but I’ve heard numbers like “90% women” thrown around.
But the small audience of men is an untapped market. It’s got potential. Men are reading erotica in large volumes–they’re just doing it on free sites like literotica. I wish more publishers would go after them–or even that we see a new publisher that arises specifically with the male audience in mind. Don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of fantastic books out there that have plenty to offer for the male audience; it’s just hard to dig through it all to find.
Finally, “erotica for men” doesn’t need to be a story written from a male perspective. I spoke of male leads with Batman and Spider-man, but didn’t mean that the stories were told from those perspectives. A story needs to be told however it needs to be told to make it the most interesting and most successful–in the case of erotica, we judge interest and success by how sexy the story is, among other things. Whether that’s a man or a woman is up to the author. I’m about to finish a story written from both POVs, and I’ve read some great fiction from solely a woman’s.
Thanks again for reading and commenting!
Michael Zeller
Michael Crichton, deception. Flip through until you get to the sex, that’s how to write erotica for men
Michael Zeller
Sorry, disclosure is the novel
Calypso
Kenny, your site is great! I can’t believe there is a site like this!!!
We need erotica for men! Years ago I won 9 writing contests and was stopped short of publishing because of a lack of money. I tried to land a job writing for a romance publisher but received a style sheet that dictated how the book would have to go. No way! I strive to be creative.
I also agree with bellar1 because I love reading from the female perspective IF it’s written for men! I love the cheating wife/cuckold/femdom and other genres.
I intend to publish on Smashwords and on my own site that I’m in the process of creating. I am trying hard to think of a domain name that would depict these exact thoughts: what men want from a woman’s mind, but if my site sounds too feminine, men won’t go there!
Bellar1, you are 100% correct. I don’t want to “be inside another man’s head”.
What I want is to be inside a woman’s head that knows what a man wants to read!!!
Kenny, you are 100% correct. This is a virtually untapped market!!!
And yes, I definitely agree that sex on every page is boring. Great description that leads up to it (fairly soon or teases) is dynamite.
Let’s jump on it. I’ll keep up with your site!
I’ll also let you know when mine is up!
kennywriter
Thanks for your comment. There actually are some great books out there written from a woman’s perspective but that appeal to a male audience (as well as a woman’s). Look up Kirsten McCurran. Her series, Eve and Friends, is particularly good if that’s what you’re looking for. Also, my stories starting with Little Miss.
Share your blog when it’s up!
Kenny Wright » Female POV in men’s erotica
[…] seen this idea expressed a few times in the blog comments and in e-mails. There’s an audience of male readers looking for plots that appeal to them yet […]
CJ Carnaghan
Years ago I bet my companion I could join an erotic writing group with a male profile and write from the male perspective and no one would know I was a woman. I won the bet–a bit too successfully if you consider the number of off-group emails my character received. But I never thought there were subsets, i.e. “Erotica for Women” or “Erotica for Men.” I write erotica from both POVs and hope everyone enjoys it. I must admit, however, I cannot write a believeable M/M scene.
Symone Craven
Okay… i know this was written a long time ago… but it’s so funny because I write erotica. At first I thought women might be interested. BUT judging by what you’re saying, some of what I’ve written is actually better suited for men. It gives me some food for thought. Haha. Thanks for the insight!
RONALD SHEPPARD
Mr. Wright,
I honestly believe you get it, from my husbands perspective (yes I am using his login) and I agree with him completely. Romantic novels is to erotica as erotica is to porn! day and night. When I read excerpts from so called erotica written by celebrated female authors they make me want to throw up. One of the comments you received was that men do not want to get into the head of a man, amen. The woman is what the male is interested in. To most “men” anything about the man is alpha competition and does not want to read about some pretty boy with the perfect six pack making “sweet love” to his object of desire. He wants a real woman in realistic scenes with a lot of detail focused on the woman. The men, in her journey through the novel, are merely props she encounters along the way.
I am Betty Sheppard, by the way.
bonusfruit
I would like stories where the guy doesn’t have to be a rapacious dominant animal. imagine the girl being overcome with desire for a change
kennywriter
Check out Just Watch Me. I think that would qualify.
Jen
Women read your books too you know! I’ve read the two Parallel Lines books and just finished The Woman She Was. Write a sequel to that please!
The last line of the book “Mmm, wouldn’t you like to know…”
YES I WOULD!! 🙂
kennywriter
Thanks for reading, Jen! I’ve been asked by a few others about a sequel to that short. Something’s slowly coming together in my head, but for now, I’m focused on finishing up my latest series.
Sorry for the late reply here. I do appreciate the comment.
David Stacey
One of the BIG differences between your writing and too many others is the ticking clock. I never want to skip pages with your stories. They are nicely balanced with enough description of (Everything) to set the scene but not too much.
Marks890
Good day Mr. Wright.
I just had to write you to say that I loved reading your new story “Anne’s Affair”! It hit vey close to my own real life situation that started when my wife’s affair that started a couple years ago.
This is absolutely true and just like “Travis”, I was both intrigued and aroused; I relished in the anguish of my wife’s affair with a guy who she met from her work, only he was a customer at the car dealership where my wife worked (in the finance / warranty dept).
After I realized how much it aroused me, I found myself going out of my way to make it easy for her to cheat on me. I travel occasionally for my business in so I set up a few out of town business trips as a way of making it easier for her to make time for him.
My wife didn’t keep a diary though… I had installed dash-cam video recorders in both of our vehicles (for insurance purposes). She also knew that I had installed them months earlier but apparently she forgot that it records audio as well, so whenever she uses her phone’s hands free option while driving, the dash cam records the entire conversation very clearly.
I found out about her affair after she was involved in a minor traffic accident and while I reviewed the accident on my computer from the dashcam memory card, I stumbled across several conversations between my wife and this other guy.
I was absolutely FLOORED when I discovered their conversations about how they were trying to hook up without me catching them. Apparently he was going through a divorce at the time and had to buy a car out of necessity but I never did find out exactly how or what the circumstances were that led up to her affair with him, because the video is on a loop that erases older files while creating new ones; so I bought a 2nd memory card and swapped them out every couple of days and download all the files to my computer.
Every day her dash cam captured at least one conversation with her boyfriend and every time I listened to one of their conversations I’d get extremely aroused, especially when they started ending their conversations with “I Love you” and “I love you too”!
By listening to her private conversations with him, I pretty much knew of all their plans, and hook ups and whenever I would schedule business trips, they’d plan sleep overs.
I’d love to tell you more if you’re interested so please feel free to reply and I’ll tell you everything in detail…..
But I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoyed your new book. I like the emotional aspect of cuckolding as much or even more than the sexual aspects and how a wife might develop real feelings for her lover.
Please feel free to e-mail me directly at wheelsup63@gmail.com
Thanks again!
Best Regards,
Mark
MARK SMITH
I love these stories; especially stories where the cuckold gets more than he bargained for and the “reluctant” wife falls head over heals with a coworker or an aquaintense who has persued her in the past. I also love imagining the cuckold husband overhearing conversations between wife and lover discussing husbands inadequacies and how she prefers her new guy more. I just finished Anne’s Affair…. I enjoyed it very much!
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